My World Gathering

Leith: Okay . . . just to start the ball rolling. I am happy to call myself an atheist. I always suspected that would appall or offend some Friends, so before I attended the Gathering I only really discussed it freely with YFs. Two things at the Gathering have changed that. Firstly, the variety of beliefs at the Gathering made the idea that mine were not 'Quakerly' totally absurd. Secondly, every single person I met there accepted me and my atheism. The open sharing of our (often) differing beliefs was beautiful and supportive. I had been worried that my beliefs might hurt somebody. Now I think that I can speak my own truth while simultaneously opening a space for others to do the same.

Like Ralph (see the post below), my use of the word 'atheism' simply indicates that I don't believe in any kind of deity. It doesn't mean that I would refute God's existance given sufficient proof. I try to avoid setting my views in stone. But, on the basis of the evidence available to me (and keeping in mind the sources of evidence, and what I know of psychology and philosophy), I find the concept of a supernatural being quite impossible. Some people might see this as agnosticism. I find that the word atheist 'fits' me better because I 'know' (as far as that is possible) that there is no God.

I found it interesting that the people I spoke to at the Gathering had quite different understandings of 'atheism', and it struck me that we are not really communicating at all when we hide behind religious jargon. I thought that some written discussion about these kinds of things might be fascinating.

I will be particularly pleased if people share their wisdom and ask questions about other's understandings, so that this grows into a true discussion. A good question can last a lifetime! (11/21/05)

(Anon): its interesting that many people that i have talked to who believe in God believe there is decisive 'proof'. Evidence can always be interpreted in many different ways, which makes the word 'proof' itself interesting too... (11/22/05)

Joe Bloggs: I'm not particularly happy in labelling myself an atheist as I feel it doesn't exactly represent my beliefs. To me, to be an atheist means to deny the possibility of god. I am uncomfortable in setting myself against the possibility of god as I find it hard to see that there is any strong evidence one way or another. Basically i'm not comfortable denying the existance of god (or any of the various equivalents) and equally uncomfortable believing in the existance of god. I'd like to propose a new catagory of "hedgingmybetsists" (11/23/05)

Joe Bloggs: I'm not particularly happy in labelling myself an atheist as I feel it doesn't exactly represent my beliefs. To me, to be an atheist means to deny the possibility of god. I am uncomfortable in setting myself against the possibility of god as I find it hard to see that there is any strong evidence one way or another. Basically i'm not comfortable denying the existance of god (or any of the various equivalents) and equally uncomfortable believing in the existance of god. I'd like to propose a new catagory of "hedgingmybetsists" (11/23/05)

Joe Bloggs: Dirty "Add Comment" button lloking like it's done nothing and tricking me into posting twice (11/23/05)

Anna D: I don't see god as a supreme being, a dieity (probably just as well as I don't think I can spell it either!) of someone 'out there', in fact the 'g word' is one I have struggled with for years but still I couldn't quite feel comfortable calling myself an atheist, more an agnostic I guess, altho' there seem to be as many definitions of that too - what I meant by it was believing that there was something but not knowing what. However these days (since the Triennial my personal theology has had a rapid shake up) I've got to the point where I do use god reasonably comfortably (but usually without the capitalisation) to define the sense of a connecting force/presence/divine essense present in all living things and around us. I've never been any good at debate on any subject as I don't think quick enough and never have good answers up my sleeve to difficult questions like 'prove it' 'cos I usually can't! But somehow that doesn't seem to matter, there is enough evidence for me in my experience of the interconnectedness of all things, in the beauty of a gathered Meeting, of ministry speaking to my condition when I've needed it (even if I haven't liked the answer!) to know enough that there is 'something' there. I guess it doesn't have to be called 'god' and if I could come up with a better name without sounding like a Star Wars fanatic I'd probably use it. I found Colin Saxton's concept quite helpful (which I missed but Jonathan has referred to in his reporting back) about god not being like us and to try to package god into a human form (or any other) is to limit god - I can't relate to the god the father kind of god at all, god the mother/mother nature etc makes far more sense to me but even so it doesn't quite 'fit', there being simply a 'good' force doesn't work as you can't have light without dark and following that line of thought gets me into all kinds of things I haven't worked through yet. So for now (no doubt it'll change over time) I have this concept of there being something that I can't quite define, but for now I'll call god, which is an integral part of all things. Connecting with it is like tuning into a wavelength and being in harmony with that part that is within you and within others/that which is around you, so I guess when a gathered Meeting for Worship happens for me it is when we are all in tune with each other and that within us. Does this make even the remotest bit of sense to anyone other than me?! I feel like I've been working this one out as I type... (11/27/05)

thom o: hey guys, what a beautiful blog you have, well done leith, and thanks for the link anna. personally i found it counter-productive to analyse my opinions on god in the wake of the wgyf. i didn´t want to humanise it, or pigeon-hole it, or create a coherent conception of it - but inevitably through thinking about it i did, and soon god had again become a stereotype of others´ belief - a protagonist in a script, rather than an elusive beautiful mystery. so after briefly driving myself nuts looking for a reason to it all, i decided instead not to try and make life too coherent, but just accept my limited human understanding and enjoy this love and life - unsurprisingly i feel a lot more connected with the universal for doing so. as for religious jargon, whats the big deal? i jive talk and i aint no gangsta. i speak spanish and i aint no spaniard. words are just the bottle to carry the wine of ideas inside, so stop reading the label and have a drink. enjoy your summer and country you lucky lucky people. abrazos from españa. thomas. (12/02/05)

ria: but thats the thing isnt it? words are just words, tools for portraying ideas... but its interesting considering how different people use them, what they mean to different people.. ive discovered that even people i grew up with, and who think and believe things very similar to me can have very different interpretations of certain words.. it makes u wonder just how useful they are? are they hearing what u think you are saying? can u trully be portraying the idea u intend if the other person thinks the words have different meanings or significance? maybe so.. perhaps to use a tool effectively though, one must first have some understanding of it... (12/04/05)